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On February 23, 2020, 25-year-old black Ahmed Abery went out for a jog, and was subsequently chased and killed by three white men. These people will claim that they think Arbery is robbing nearby property and then take self-defense actions against him. Nearly a year later, the three were convicted of murder. When Arbery was killed, after several unarmed black Americans were killed, the nation's reflection on race and racial justice became more intense.

The guilty verdict in Ahmaud Arbery's case came after Kyle Rittenhouse shot and killed Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin. The racial justice protests triggered the shooting and killing of two men and a third person who were injured and were acquitted nearly a week after they were released. The trial of Rittenhouse and Abery became a point of contact for many Americans who believed that the criminal justice system was biased against people of color.

Watch: The jury finds the murderer of Ahmed Abery guilty of murder

We discussed with law and racial justice experts what we can get from the Arbery case in the larger context of the intersection of race and the American justice system.

HANK KLIBANOFF is a professor at Emory University and the host of the "Buried Truth" podcast on the Civil Rights Cold Case.

"This case is as shocking as the cases we did in the 1940s and 1950s-when we look back at these impunity and racially motivated killings-it is not just these people who chase and hunt down Ah The way and the way they killed him. But after that the criminal justice system handled the case and tried to release the attackers and said they had the right to try to do what they did."

JARRETT ADAMS, author and civil and defense lawyer:

"We have learned how difficult it is to hold people accountable in our judicial system when they are not Ahmed Abery and my own skin color. I think people should not miss this fact. We proceeded. Trial. We have a verdict today. But, let’s see how long it took us to get there. If it weren’t because we saw the video of the murder of Mr. Arbery, this case might never have been brought up.”

AYESHA HARDAWAY, Associate Professor, Case Western Reserve University Law School:

"I think we should not mistakenly think that racial profiling will cause the death of blacks and browns in this country every day, and the danger of these citizen arrest laws gives racial profiling and vigilance.

I think it is important that we do not try to infer our position as a country too much from case to case. Our criminal legal system is pieced together, each state has its own specific laws, and certain community standards and expectations—things that may be shocking in one state may be completely acceptable in another. "

And I think that as long as this is the reality we are dealing with, it is difficult to extrapolate or grasp the pulse of where we are as a country. Where we think we have made progress in ensuring racial justice, we will soon discover that we have not made progress. "

HANK KLIBANOFF: “Race equality in the justice system is still difficult to achieve. Does today’s judgment make me feel better? Of course, it does. This seems to be a deliberate decision. You want to know how many of them are in several I saw the video of [Arbery being killed] a month ago, and immediately formed some thoughts, thinking it was wrong, and then took it to the court, and did not find any idea of ​​the reason for rejection mentioned by the defense. Come to me Said that this is hopeful and hopeful."

JARRETT ADAMS: "This case calls for a diversified legal field now. 90% of your prosecutors are white. You have criminal defendants and they make up a criminal justice system that is mainly black. If these numbers are not enough, then It should definitely be illustrated by some cases we are currently seeing in the news. I think people must understand that this is not just about the equality of people’s skin color. It’s about equality in fairness, and as far as experience is concerned, people have opportunities. In terms of getting along with different people with different makeup and different backgrounds. This is the only way to deal with it correctly. You know, I have experienced several cases, and the judge will look at the defendant and be able to say, "You know, I know like you How does the child feel "to make a decision. This plays a role in our justice system."

KIM TAYLOR-THOMPSON: "When someone, in this case three people, has the law in their hands-in that case, we will stop them and we will hold them accountable for their actions . So I think the point is that we can do this. I think the lingering question is, will we do it? Looking ahead, what lessons have we learned from it, and whether we will take more steps to address the obvious incentives Potential racism motivated by these three people?"

AYESHA HARDAW Putting the two together should help us understand that although many people may think that justice was done in one case, others will definitely think that it was not enough in previous cases."

Read more: Did Rittenhouse's acquittal set a precedent? Two experts weighed

HANK KLIBANOFF: "I grew up in the South. We have racial conditions and think blacks are inferior. I was born in 1949, five years before Brown v. Board of Education. By the way, I think racial conditions still exist. Not that strong. ——I think many people have to work hard to overcome it, but I believe it still exists."

JARRETT ADAMS: "We know it's about race. We know that the reason these people are chasing Mr. Abery is because of his race. If it's a white jogger, they might wave and offer a glass of lemonade. But because it's Arbery. Sir, he can only [engage in] criminal activities. However, this is a historical description that our society is dealing with and needs to come down. For a long time, we have portrayed black people as criminals and threats, so much so that we have embedded them in our In the social structure. We must eliminate these absurd preconceived notions one by one, that if a black man is somewhere, or if he looks like a certain way, he must do something criminal."

"When African-Americans in this country became a defendant, you had no presumption of innocence. You walked in with the shadow of guilt. This is not the way the constitution should provide due process for its citizens. This is the difference. This is this. The situation is different. You know, if you look at the Rittenhouse case, you will see how to take all precautions to ensure that he quotes, dereferences, and gets a fair trial. This will not happen in the African American People’s defendants. And I think if people, no matter which side they are on, they can say, “Man, that’s a fair trial,” then why can’t we copy African Americans in this country? "

KIM TAYLOR-THOMPSON: "I think race must have played a role in the killing of Arbery. The actions of these three white men once again show that there is deep-rooted racial prejudice in this country, which not only supports but nurtures this prejudice. This is Modern lynching. A young man, a young black man, who does nothing but runs in a predominantly white community is considered dangerous and guilty. These three people believe they can and should hunt him down. They believe They can do it. They believe that it makes sense for them to do it, they believe they will get away with it, and they almost did it."

AYESHA HARDAWAY: "In all of our American history, there are government-approved laws, practices, and customs... This clearly shows that black people are unpopular in certain areas. When a black person walks out of an acceptable area or where they should go Locally, their lives are in danger-I think this is clearly what the jury believes happened to Mr. Abery."

"In this field, even in the courts of Brian’s lawyers, the defense has made clear efforts against the'other' blacks. Time and time again, arguing about the existence of black priests, you will see from Mr. Abery. There are continuing clues from the day of the murder to the last trial motion. But I think the prosecutor did a good job saying that this should be the United States. This should be a free country. Just because someone doesn’t want to answer your question, you don’t have it. The right to kill them."

HANK KLIBANOFF: "No matter who the white jurors are, I think they showed a certain amount of courage to do what they did, because they must know that this will be criticized by many people."

KIM TAYLOR-THOMPSON: "The verdict did not surprise me. I think this is a video that actually explains all this and it is open and closed... It seems that people do indeed pay attention to what happens in the video. This is an obvious murder. So I’m very happy to see that the jury abides by the law, applies the law to the facts and does the right thing. A jury composed mainly of white people and a black person can come to the right In conclusion, I am not surprised. I am really happy to see this happen."

AYESHA HARDAWAY: "He [Bryan] and Greg McMichael were not convicted of malicious murder, which is not surprising to me. The jury apparently believes Travis McMichael has a greater culpability because he detained three shotguns. Pull the trigger. So all of this makes sense to me, or seems to match the evidence."

JARRETT ADAMS: "According to the facts, each case is different and different. Therefore, the facts in the Arbery case are completely different from the facts in the Rittenhouse case. Rittenhouse took part in the protest with a gun. He and the gun There was a conflict, and he knew there was a conflict. I have never seen Wisconsin's self-defense law read this way (in the Rittenhouse case) in my life. I work in law in Wisconsin. I have never seen it before. I think The only difference is that my client is a person of color. [With Abery] This is a case of an unarmed person being chased by three white men with shotguns in a car. They are arguing about self-defense? I think even if this The argument is also absurd."

HANK KLIBANOFF: "If you go back to the era when the jury is all white, and you are back to that era, we all believe that blacks are inferior and guilty on the condition of race. Whites tend to believe that any alibi of white self-defense may be true. of."

KIM TAYLOR-THOMPSON: "I think the difference between this case and the Rittenhouse case is that the prosecutor really understands how to argue that this is not a self-defense case in the McMichaels case. In the McMichaels case, the prosecutor understood this and proposed that you You cannot claim self-defense when you are the original aggressor. The lawyers in Rittenhouse did not do this at all. I also think you [to Rittenhouse] have more sympathy. In Rittenhouse. , The jurors want to sympathize with a young man. Although I have represented young clients before, they are usually people of color and they are not presumed innocent like Rittenhouse. These jurors can see their son at Rittenhouse , Nephew or themselves, and can be connected. In that case, the prosecutor did need to unpack and help the jury understand that what he did was unreasonable, and they did not do that at all."

AYESHA HARDAWAY: "It is obvious that we are dealing with people of the same race and gender who claim to be righteous police. They believe that it is their responsibility to protect the property of others-even their own property. I think in these two cases The high-level reality of fact mode is really amazing."

"I also think it's a bit different. The fact that we rarely talk about the race of three people in Kenosha, two died, one was injured, and they were white. The verdict can be seen as an ally or support for the change. The white man of the national police sent a message."

"The jurists in these cases are very different. I think the judges have different postures. One person wants to be the focus of attention, and the other person is very willing to assume the role and responsibility of the referee, but did not use this opportunity to please the jury. "

"Although the laws and regulations in Wisconsin and Georgia are not that different, we do see a different pattern of facts. When a person is unarmed, chased, and pushed into desperation, it is different from the individual who caused the alarm in the open carrying space. Than, what does this mean. [This is] questioning what we as a nation will do around reasonable gun legislation, because what we have seen in Wisconsin does show that when individuals are allowed to carry semi-automatic rifles around How dangerous for each participant."

HANK KLIBANOFF: "If the video does not come out, we will never appear in court, never."

KIM TAYLOR-THOMPSON: "If it weren’t for the madness of the video, there would be no accusations, because the local DA concluded that Arbery did. I believe his quote is'aggressive,' and it is reasonable for McMichaels to shoot him. "We made the local DA unwilling to even charge these three people. Once the video went viral and people actually saw what was happening, the pressure to file an accusation and get out of the local DA was considerable, [to] actually please An external prosecutor came to bring a new perspective and perhaps a more objective view of what happened. If it weren’t for the video, I’m not sure we would be here. These three people could have escaped unjustified and deliberate murder.”

AYESHA HARDAWAY: "I think the video in this case was used to literally chase and drive Mr. Arbery to a desperate reality before he was killed. It is undeniable that he is doing his best to avoid interacting with them. The prosecutor said it lasted five minutes. In order to be able to infer reality through... the five minutes of his life, he must resonate very deeply with the jury. This is not about Travis McMichael needs. Defend himself or his father. It's about them taking his life for no reason."

Left: File photo: People gather in front of the Ahmaud Arbery mural painted on the side of the African American Cultural Center in Brunswick, demanding justice for Ahmaud Arbery in Brunswick, Georgia, November 4, 2021. REUTERS/Octavio Jones/File Photo

Author: Kate Brumback, Associated Press

Author: Russ Bynum, Associated Press

Author: Russ Bynum, Associated Press

Associate Editor of Digital News at PBS NewsHour

Yasmeen Sami Alamiri is the senior news editor of PBS NewsHour.

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